Legislature(2001 - 2002)

01/16/2002 08:10 AM House EDU

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                     ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                 
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION                                                                            
                        January 16, 2002                                                                                        
                           8:10 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Con Bunde, Chair                                                                                                 
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Gary Stevens                                                                                                     
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Gretchen Guess                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Brian Porter                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
WORK SESSION - TEACHER SHORTAGE ISSUES                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BETH NORDLUND, Special Assistant                                                                                                
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Education and Early Development                                                                                   
801 West 10th Street, Suite 200                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99801-1894                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-1, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CON BUNDE called the House Special Committee on Education                                                                 
meeting to order at 8:10 a.m.  He noted this meeting was a work                                                                 
session and that he anticipated the discussion would be "free-                                                                  
ranging" in order to identify legislation the committee may wish                                                                
to sponsor.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0335                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS expressed his opinion  that as a result of                                                               
the  committee's  interim  meetings  held  in  Kodiak,  Kotzebue,                                                               
Wasilla, and  Anchorage, members  had learned a  great deal.   He                                                               
stated that the issue of  mentoring was consistently mentioned by                                                               
witnesses  at these  hearings.   No  statewide mentoring  program                                                               
currently  exists.    He  acknowledged   that  it  will  be  more                                                               
difficult in the  future to attract new teachers and  to keep the                                                               
good  teachers.    He  wondered  if  it  was  possible  to  draft                                                               
legislation to encourage districts to have a mentoring program.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   STEVENS    referenced   a    conversation   with                                                               
Representative Guess regarding the  possibility that a portion of                                                               
a school  district's administration budget could  be dedicated to                                                               
teacher  mentoring   programs.    [According  to   Department  of                                                               
Education   and  Early   Development   (EED)  personnel,   school                                                               
districts   must  allocate   70  percent   of  state   funds  for                                                               
instruction;   administration,    facility,   and    other   non-                                                               
instructional  costs  must  be budgeted  from  the  remaining  30                                                               
percent.]  He asked whether this  would be an issue the committee                                                               
might like to tackle.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0447                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said  she thought it wise to  let the local                                                               
school  board have  as  much  control of  the  school system  [as                                                               
possible].  The Wrangell School  District has a mentoring program                                                               
for which it receives no extra  funding.  Mentors are set up with                                                               
new teachers  as they arrive.   She believed there must  be other                                                               
districts in the  state with mentoring programs.   She noted that                                                               
she thought some of those  [mentoring program] decisions might be                                                               
best left at the local level.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0480                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE said the state spends  $4.7 million per school day to                                                               
operate  schools.   He continued,  "The state  has, certainly,  a                                                               
role  in  the  funding,  but   local  control  is  so  incredibly                                                               
important to ... the basis of  Alaska government.  So it's ... an                                                               
interesting tightrope."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE concurred that mentoring  was one of the issues heard                                                               
about most  consistently during the  interim hearings  across the                                                               
state regarding  teacher retention  and recruitment.   Mentoring,                                                               
he   surmised,   would   address  shortage   issues   by   giving                                                               
accomplished  teachers   new  goals  and  opportunities   and  by                                                               
preventing new teachers from feeling  as though they were "thrown                                                               
to the wolves."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0600                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN indicated that  both the Lexington Institute                                                               
handout  ["Indispensable Tests:   How  a Value-Added  Approach to                                                               
School Testing  Could Identify and Bolster  Exceptional Teaching"                                                               
by Robert  Holland, December 2001]  and Milken  Family Foundation                                                               
studies have  found that  the "biggest return  on their  buck" is                                                               
quality  teachers.   He noted  that  quality teachers  overshadow                                                               
kids' backgrounds, broken homes, pay - "anything."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  said,  "There   is  a  direct  correlation                                                               
between good teachers  and good grades."  He noted  this has been                                                               
witnessed in  ghettos, cities, rural  areas, and everywhere.   He                                                               
stated  that  this research  indicates  mentoring  is a  critical                                                               
component  for the  first  one to  three years.    He added  that                                                               
nationwide,  schools  lose  half   the  teachers  because,  "they                                                               
claim," they were  "thrown to the wolves, ... [or]  in over their                                                               
head[s]."   Some  of that  [attrition] is  because teachers  have                                                               
chosen the wrong field, he indicated.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     I think the new culture  is that you're going to change                                                                    
     job professions  three or four times  in your lifetime.                                                                    
     So,  even with  those things,  I think  it's imperative                                                                    
     that  we do  establish  something.   And  what I  would                                                                    
     suggest is  to maybe  piggyback on  what Representative                                                                    
     Stevens  has said  .... If  that  truly is  one of  the                                                                    
     largest problems  we have  with retention  of teachers,                                                                    
     and  maybe  even  securing   teachers,  "we  have  this                                                                    
     wonderful  mentoring program  in Alaska,  guys.   Y'all                                                                    
     come."  Maybe that would help.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  suggested   a  subcommittee  should  study                                                               
various mentoring programs and methods of funding them.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0765                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE sought  committee consensus  to form  a subcommittee                                                               
addressing  mentoring   programs.    He  said   he  thought  that                                                               
mentoring  might be  something the  committee could  address that                                                               
involves relatively  small amounts of  money with a  large return                                                               
for the investment.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0825                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE  wondered how broad  or narrow [a  view] the                                                               
committee  would  be taking  of  a  mentoring-type program.    He                                                               
mentioned  both  new  teachers  coming  through  "our  university                                                               
system"  and teachers  coming  from outside  the  state to  rural                                                               
Alaska.    Was the  committee  limiting  discussion to  classroom                                                               
mentoring, or will it include  an introduction to the [region and                                                               
culture]?                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  indicated that indeed,  the definition  of mentoring                                                               
and the job  of a mentor would vary between  Sand Lake Elementary                                                               
School  in Anchorage  and  an elementary  school  in Kotzebue  or                                                               
Noatak, for  example.  He  pointed out that  there may be  two or                                                               
three  new teachers  in a  school; would  there then  need to  be                                                               
regional opportunities  for mentoring?  He  referenced an earlier                                                               
conversation  with   the  university  community,  EED,   and  the                                                               
Anchorage School District.   He said his impression  was that the                                                               
university  would like  to provide  more substance  for mentoring                                                               
[programs].   He thought  that should be  part of  the discussion                                                               
and, perhaps,  part of the funding mechanism.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0990                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  emphasized  that  the  biggest  issue  was                                                               
making new  teachers feel at  home, showing them where  the opera                                                               
is or how  they can go after  caribou, for example.   He said the                                                               
most success with mentoring has  been where the community leaders                                                               
get involved  to help a new  teacher, far from home,  to help her                                                               
feel "like she's one of us."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1055                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS added  that  principals  need mentoring  as                                                               
well.  Often  new principals are isolated in  their new positions                                                               
and need support and guidance.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number  1080                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the  teacher shortage includes principals.                                                               
He appointed Representative Stevens  as chair of the subcommittee                                                               
on  mentoring.   He  welcomed  any members  to  attend and  asked                                                               
Representatives  Green and  Guess to  "provide the  core" of  the                                                               
committee.      He   suggested   members   read   the   materials                                                               
Representative Green  had referenced.   He noted that  there will                                                               
be an education  roundtable in Juneau later this  month; he hoped                                                               
all members of the committee would be involved.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1170                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  suggested  approaching teachers  to  ask,                                                               
"What  do  you  think  would've helped?"    She  added,  "Perhaps                                                               
there's a class  at the university level that  the teachers could                                                               
take. ...  Times are  changing, and the  teachers have  to change                                                               
with the  times."   She noted  that teachers  "wear so  many more                                                               
hats nowadays."   She wondered  if the university needed  to make                                                               
some changes in instruction as well.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1224                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  recounted conversations in which  the university had                                                               
expressed interest  in looking at mentoring;  it currently offers                                                               
no certificate or  degree in that area.   He encouraged committee                                                               
members to be creative in  their thinking but fiscally realistic.                                                               
"Where can we get the greatest return?" he asked.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1264                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS  suggested EED  compile information  on what                                                               
districts are currently doing with mentoring.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1290                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE confirmed  with  the  mentoring subcommittee  chair,                                                               
Representative  Stevens,  that  the  subcommittee  would  have  a                                                               
report for the committee in two weeks.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1320                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS  said health care  had been an issue  in the                                                               
interim hearings.  She speculated this  was an area that may have                                                               
a  zero  fiscal impact.    She  said  most of  Kotzebue's  [state                                                               
funding] increase  was allocated to increased  health care costs.                                                               
She wondered  if it was possible  for districts to buy  in to the                                                               
state's health care  system at cost to enable them  to be part of                                                               
a bigger pool.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1370                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE  agreed this  would  be  a logical  and  cost-saving                                                               
measure.  He  requested that Representative Guess  check with the                                                               
Division of Retirement & Benefits  to see what obstacles might be                                                               
in the way of [such an arrangement].                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1392                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS expressed his  concern that health care is                                                               
a negotiated  issue with  union contracts in  each district.   He                                                               
also wondered if the state program was a package.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1410                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN noted  that  he had  heard recruitment  and                                                               
retention  of teachers  was  an issue  at  the interim  hearings.                                                               
Many experienced teachers  are retiring after 20 years.   He said                                                               
a couple of  retired teachers in his district have  been asked to                                                               
return to teaching.  He noted  the problem was they would have to                                                               
pay back  the [retirement]  package they  took before  they could                                                               
return.  He  wondered if it would be to  the state's advantage to                                                               
rehire retired  teachers at the  rate of a new  teacher's salary.                                                               
He also wondered  if these teachers would  be "out-of-phase" with                                                               
new teaching techniques.   He said the  Anchorage School District                                                               
has looked into this, but has taken no action to date.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1508                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON   added  that   she  thought  it   made  a                                                               
difference how teachers retired, whether  it was through an early                                                               
retirement or a normal retirement.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1533                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE noted  that Beth  Nordlund, Special  Assistant, EED,                                                               
had confirmed by a nod that this was indeed true.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1550                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BETH NORDLUND, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,                                                                   
Department of  Education and Early  Development, stated  that she                                                               
thought each package differed.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1560                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE suggested  the  committee talk  to  the Division  of                                                               
Retirement  & Benefits  regarding  rehiring  retired teachers  to                                                               
determine what  the fiscal  impact would be.   He  volunteered to                                                               
research and  answer the question  of recertification  of retired                                                               
teachers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1605                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  noted that  retired teachers  starting over                                                               
at a  new teacher's salary  don't cost the  state any more.   The                                                               
cost was  incurred when the  teacher retired, "but that's  a done                                                               
deal," he  concluded.  Furthermore,  it is already  known whether                                                               
the former teacher was a good teacher.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1660                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE noted that some  teachers need to change professions,                                                               
but that  their success  is also based  on their  supervision and                                                               
teaching assignments.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1686                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS noted  that he  wanted any  system to  be                                                               
fair.   "People have got to  somehow take care of  that advantage                                                               
they got  [by] retiring  early," he  said.   He pointed  out that                                                               
other states are benefiting by  hiring Alaska's retired teachers.                                                               
Some of these teachers are  wanted back by Alaskan districts, but                                                               
are unable to return because of the retirement rules.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1720                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  requested EED to comment  on recertification options                                                               
at the next committee meeting in two weeks.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1738                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  added that  he thought the  committee could                                                               
suggest  changes that  would circumvent  obstacles which  prevent                                                               
modifying the current retirement system.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1761                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON agreed with  Representative Guess's idea of                                                               
the  insurance  pool.    She   noted  that  the  Wrangell  School                                                               
District's  building   and  liability  insurance   increased  130                                                               
percent  this year  alone.   She  continued, "That  makes a  huge                                                               
difference  for  school  districts;  that  makes  the  difference                                                               
between a teacher's pay."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1790                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE confirmed  that Representative  Guess would  broaden                                                               
her insurance inquiry to include  other forms of insurance beyond                                                               
health care.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1814                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS added  that  some  districts are  pooling                                                               
with their local government.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1820                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOULE mentioned  that the  Alaska Association  of                                                               
School  Boards offers  insurance  through  [Alaska Public  Entity                                                               
Insurance  (APEI),  formerly  Alaska  Schools  Insurance  Company                                                               
(ASIC)].  He  said that the teacher housing  shortage was another                                                               
issue heard  at the interim  committee hearings.  He  thought the                                                               
committee  should   look  at  this   as  a  subject   related  to                                                               
recruitment and  retention of  teachers, especially  for outlying                                                               
districts.  He noted that  rural districts have a higher turnover                                                               
rate than urban areas which is partially due to housing issues.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1888                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE informed  the committee  it will  be hearing  a bill                                                               
sponsored  by  Representative  Rokeberg  [HB  293-AHFC  LOANS  TO                                                               
TEACHERS] that will  help teachers buy homes.  Some  areas of the                                                               
state, he  noted, have no  homes available to purchase,  and that                                                               
needs to be  addressed as well.  He  suggested discussing housing                                                               
when the committee hears Representative Rokeberg's bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1926                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  urged the committee  to come up  with ideas                                                               
[to   solve   education    problems],   and   perhaps   introduce                                                               
legislation,  without worrying  about  the fiscal  ramifications.                                                               
He  recommended  that  the  committee  members  let  the  finance                                                               
committee or this  committee review that [later.]   He emphasized                                                               
the importance  of these discussions  and suggested there  may be                                                               
creative ways to finance the solutions.   On the other hand, some                                                               
ideas just require money.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1990                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE reminded  the committee that the  Benchmark Tests and                                                               
High  School  Graduation Qualifying  Exam  (HSGQE)  have taken  3                                                               
teaching  days away  from  the school  year;  this has  decreased                                                               
students'  "time on  task."   He noted  that in  other countries,                                                               
students  spend more  time in  school than  American and  Alaskan                                                               
students.  He remarked that  the average attendance in Alaska had                                                               
increased  from 140  days a  year to  180 days  a year  since the                                                               
inception  of the  testing which  provides teachers  and students                                                               
more opportunity to be productive.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE said:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     So  I had  this great  notion ....   We've  taken three                                                                    
     days away  for testing,  let's just add  3 days  to the                                                                    
     Alaska school year.  In my  heart of hearts, I think we                                                                    
     should add  10, maybe 15  or 20.   But 3, what  a minor                                                                    
     thing!                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2074                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE distributed  "Estimated  Cost  of Additional  School                                                               
Days,"  prepared  by Eddy  Jeans,  School  Finance Manager,  EED.                                                               
According  to the  report, it  costs $4.7  million a  day to  run                                                               
Alaska's schools.  He noted  that Anchorage alone costs the state                                                               
about $1 million a day.   Chair Bunde expressed that, in spite of                                                               
the cost, he's unwilling to say,  "This just can't be done."  The                                                               
legislature has,  in the past,  added substantial amounts  to the                                                               
Foundation  Formula.    This  would cost,  he  said,  around  $15                                                               
million to add 3 days.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE expressed his desire  for the committee to talk about                                                               
adding days and  for it to become an issue  on the public agenda.                                                               
He related  his reservation, saying,  "In the best of  all worlds                                                               
we  could add  another $15  million to  our Foundation  Formula -                                                               
would that  be the best  way to spend that  money?  Or  are there                                                               
other ways that would be more productive?"                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2166                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  questioned whether  the projected  cost per                                                               
day would be less, given that the salaries are already paid for.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2175                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE stated  that Anchorage  teachers' contracts  cover a                                                               
188-day school year.  There would  be 3 days in addition to that.                                                               
He stated that these numbers from  Eddy Jeans took the total cost                                                               
for  the school  year and  divided it  by the  number of  days to                                                               
determine  a  daily rate.    He  noted  that  there may  be  some                                                               
creative   ways  to   reduce  that   amount.     He  added   that                                                               
transportation  costs would  be  significant  for districts  that                                                               
transport students.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE said  he'd hoped  to  encourage schools  to use  the                                                               
[proposed] three additional days for  testing.  Students who were                                                               
not testing  would have in-service  days; teaching time  would be                                                               
saved.  He continued:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     One  of  the  things  I've  heard -  and  it's  a  fair                                                                    
     criticism, particularly  at the  high school  [level] -                                                                    
     ... [is  that] the  students who  are not  being tested                                                                    
     aren't  having  quality education,  because  [teachers]                                                                    
     are just having to do crowd control.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  remarked that  "at first blush"  it seems  [adding 3                                                               
days] can't  be done.   Maybe  we need to  "find some  way around                                                               
this roadblock."   He would  like feedback from  school districts                                                               
and EED.   Maybe school districts will have  more productive ways                                                               
of spending the $15 million  than just extending the school year,                                                               
he noted.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2313                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  remarked   that  the  benchmarks  require                                                               
teachers to  teach to the  standards.  Some school  districts she                                                               
has  spoken with  need  more money  for  in-service training  for                                                               
teachers.  She  said, "It's easy to say, 'Well,  you've got these                                                               
days.'  But  to fly somebody in to do  the in-service teaching or                                                               
a specialist  to come in and  do something, ... that  costs a lot                                                               
of  money  for a  school  system  to do.    But  it's very,  very                                                               
necessary."   She noted  that the standards  require a  change in                                                               
the  teaching method  and that  many teachers  have not  had that                                                               
training.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2370                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE noted that he's  been told that "in-service, at least                                                               
at the  elementary, frequently leaves  something to  be desired."                                                               
In-services  are  not  always  the most  productive  use  of  the                                                               
teachers' time,  he noted.   Perhaps the committee would  like to                                                               
address  the subject  of in-service.   He  continued, "How  do we                                                               
tread that  fine line  between being helpful  at the  state level                                                               
and then being  so prescriptive that we're taking  away the local                                                               
control  and  causing  more  problems  than  we're  helping  [to]                                                               
solve."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2401                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS questioned  how many  requirements for  in-                                                               
service are  on the statutes.   Are  all of these  necessary each                                                               
year?    What burden  is  the  legislature currently  placing  on                                                               
school  districts?    That  issue  came  out  of  the  university                                                               
meeting.   Her  impression from  people in  the schools  was that                                                               
there are a lot of requirements.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2435                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE noted  his impression  that it's  done by  local and                                                               
state  regulation,   and  not  much  is   done  legislatively  to                                                               
prescribe in-service requirements.  He  requested a report in two                                                               
weeks' time  on the status  of state requirements  for in-service                                                               
training.    He also  asked  Representative  Guess to  report  on                                                               
additional requirements in the Anchorage School District.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2450                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS pointed  out that the committee  had heard a                                                               
lot about extending  the school year and about the  three days of                                                               
testing.  She noted that the  "Estimated Cost of School Days" was                                                               
a linear  analysis, but that  most things in life  aren't linear,                                                               
and it  was a good starting  place.  The actual  cost is unknown,                                                               
but  the committee  must make  a best  estimate and  then make  a                                                               
policy decision, she offered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2486                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE stated that the  committee would be required to share                                                               
this  with colleagues,  who would  request  some "pretty  linear"                                                               
answers.   He continued, "I'm  sure there  will be, in  the House                                                               
alone, 40  ideas of how  we might  better invest in  our schools,                                                               
and how much that ought to be, and where it ought to go."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-1                                                                                                                       
SIDE B                                                                                                                          
Number 2499                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  noted he was  hopeful that  price alone will  not be                                                               
the only  criterion in making this  decision.  He said  he didn't                                                               
think Eddy  Jeans would  try to "price  this high"  to discourage                                                               
the committee; if anything, he would try to encourage members.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2475                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS  referred to  HB  293  and indicated  the                                                               
committee  should  look  beyond  the purchase  of  homes  to  the                                                               
shortage  of houses.   He  stated that  the university  has built                                                               
dormitories   with  U.S.   Department   of   Housing  and   Urban                                                               
Development (HUD) funds.   Could the legislature  pursue with HUD                                                               
the building  of housing for districts?   He said, "It's  a great                                                               
payback.  You know you're going to  get your money if you build a                                                               
house on Akhiok and you've got one teacher down there."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2442                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE   emphasized  that   dormitories  do  not   pay  for                                                               
themselves.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2436                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS  noted that  teacher housing will  pay for                                                               
itself.   It is difficult  for districts  to find the  funding to                                                               
build  new houses  in  small  villages when,  in  fact, they  are                                                               
needed.  He  recommended that the committee pursue  the idea with                                                               
HUD.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2425                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE concurred,  saying, "When the bill's before  us ... I                                                               
think it's an excellent idea.   If we're going to say, 'We'd like                                                               
to provide a mechanism to help  individuals finance a home.'  Why                                                               
not a district finance a home?"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2416                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE recalled that  two years ago the Legislative                                                               
Budget and  Audit Committee  explored the  idea of  regional high                                                               
schools.  He suggested the  committee should revisit the regional                                                               
high  school concept.   He  continued, "Attached  to that,  maybe                                                               
something that  isn't the  regional high  school, but  a stepping                                                               
stone,  or mid-point,  and that  would be  ... regional  learning                                                               
centers.   And  the  possibility of  extending  past the  twelfth                                                               
grade, i.e., grade  fourteen."  He said he thought  this would be                                                               
"a time well  spent."  He noted  that not all rural  parts of the                                                               
state  would   embrace  this  concept,  but   proposed  that  the                                                               
committee  should entertain  the idea  for those  areas that  are                                                               
interested.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2345                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE  commented that  many  committee  members know  very                                                               
successful   Native  and   rural   residents   who  have   gained                                                               
"significant  advantage  from  their  experience of  going  to  a                                                               
regional school."  One of the  problems with this idea, he noted,                                                               
was the  need to  have local  schools.  He  noted that  this idea                                                               
would  generate some  interesting discussion.   Chair  Bunde said                                                               
that  he has  seen the  value of  people being  able to  attend a                                                               
[regional] school.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2296                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE offered that  he thought sufficient time had                                                               
passed, and that  people in some parts of the  state were willing                                                               
to entertain the discussion.  He continued:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     If we  look at  why we  want to  educate people  in the                                                                    
     first place,  ... it's to  help our  younger generation                                                                    
     move  into areas  of economic  opportunities.   And  by                                                                    
     getting into  regional hub areas,  I think  we'd better                                                                    
     have  the  opportunity  to showcase  the  opportunities                                                                    
     that may  not exist in  the smaller villages.   How can                                                                    
     you live  in a small  village and  still work in  a hub                                                                    
     center?    Maybe  on  a rotating  work  schedule  in  a                                                                    
     profession,  whether  it's  in medicine,  aviation,  or                                                                    
     anything else.   And I  think it has the  added benefit                                                                    
     of creating  an environment where the  expectations are                                                                    
     such  that they  would not  be a  huge surprise  by the                                                                    
     time  one   got  onto   a  college   campus  or   to  a                                                                    
     [vocational-technical school],  wherever they  chose to                                                                    
     go as a postsecondary experience.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2229                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  paraphrased Representative  Moses and said  that the                                                               
lives  of  young   people  in  rural  Alaska   would  be  greatly                                                               
facilitated  if they  would get  a business  degree and  a modem;                                                               
they  could  telecommute anywhere  in  the  world.   Chair  Bunde                                                               
observed that  this is an  option becoming more available.   Some                                                               
would physically commute  from a small community to  a hub, while                                                               
others may live in a small  community and run their own schedules                                                               
via e-mail.   He explained that he maintains an  office in Juneau                                                               
year-round, and he telecommutes every day [during the interim].                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2146                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  said she thought Representative  Joule had                                                               
a very  good suggestion.  She  noted that college and  "big city"                                                               
life can  be very traumatic for  students.  It is  also very hard                                                               
on  the family  back home;  they are  used to  a tight,  cohesive                                                               
family.   She said she has  known parents to call  their children                                                               
and  beg them  to come  back.   A regional  center would  allow a                                                               
student to  go for  short periods  and enable  the family  to get                                                               
used to  his/her absence.   She noted  that sometimes  the family                                                               
doesn't  encourage  the  child   to  stay  [in  college]  because                                                               
"they're just  dying inside  themselves."   This would  help both                                                               
the  student  and  the  family  to   get  used  to  the  idea  of                                                               
separation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2073                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE   observed  that  he   thought  the  tenor   of  the                                                               
relationship [among  committee members]  was one  of cooperation.                                                               
He speculated this might be  because "the problems are big enough                                                               
that our individual differences aren't that important."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2009                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS  mentioned  that [HB  171-ALASKA  HISTORY                                                               
CURRICULUM] is now in the  House Finance Committee.  He indicated                                                               
that the  Anchorage School District has  included Alaskan history                                                               
in  its  curriculum.   He  said  he  would  like to  see  members                                                               
encourage  the House  Finance Committee  to  move HB  171 out  of                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1965                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE commented that he  thought that the discussion needed                                                               
to continue  regarding how "heavy-handed"  the state wants  to be                                                               
in  being prescriptive.   It  would be  interesting, he  said, to                                                               
find out how many districts do not [require] Alaskan history.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE noted his concern  regarding the "general disconnect"                                                               
that young  people have  from society.   He  said, "There  may be                                                               
more of  ... 'What can  society do for  me?' and 'Why  should you                                                               
ever ask  me to  do anything?'  out there than  is healthy."   He                                                               
reported  that  some  school  districts   have  added  a  service                                                               
component  to graduation  requirements.   He re-emphasized,  "How                                                               
much should the state require, and how much should be local?"                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE said he thought  that the topic of "service learning"                                                               
should be  discussed by the  committee.   He noted that  while he                                                               
wasn't prepared to write legislation  making [service learning] a                                                               
state requirement,  he thought it  a topic worthy  of discussion.                                                               
It  gives young  people an  opportunity to  "buy in."   He  said,                                                               
"You're  less  likely to  'trash'  something  when you've  helped                                                               
create it."  Service learning  gives students a pattern for life-                                                               
long behavior and  gets them more involved in  communities and in                                                               
government.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE said:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Obviously, I  am guilty of  criticizing a  society that                                                                    
     expects  our  schools  to   do  everything  and  become                                                                    
     surrogate  parents  ....   And  so  I tread  cautiously                                                                    
     here, though I would  be interested in getting feedback                                                                    
     both  from our  schools and  from the  committee as  to                                                                    
     your view  of what  service learning might  ... entail,                                                                    
     and  whether  that's  even someplace  we  should  think                                                                    
     about going.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1838                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said he thought  Chair Bunde was  "right on                                                               
target."   He  thought it  imperative  to "get  across" to  young                                                               
people a sense of responsibility.   He expressed his opinion that                                                               
a "giveaway" state  takes away a sense of  responsibility when it                                                               
"picks up  the tab"  for everything.   If  people have  a buy-in,                                                               
they're going to  take more sense of  responsibility, and they're                                                               
going to do a lot of good things for society.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1800                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE  remarked on  a  program  he  saw about  inner  city                                                               
Philadelphia.   In this program,  college students  mentored high                                                               
school students who mentored elementary  students.  He noted, "If                                                               
you didn't  show up for  school, there were some  folks wondering                                                               
about  you.   And  if you  had  a problem  at  school, there  was                                                               
someone  ... wanting  to do  something to  help."   He continued,                                                               
"It's,  again, ...  that old  adage,  that 'locks  just keep  the                                                               
honest  people  out.'   ...    If  there's  some light  shone  on                                                               
something -  that we feel  like what we  do matters to  someone -                                                               
maybe there are some second thoughts before we do a rash thing."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1750                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOULE referred  to a  conversation with  a Juneau                                                               
teacher regarding  the issue of  attendance.  Some of  the larger                                                               
communities may have  truant officers, he noted,  but the smaller                                                               
communities  do not  have them;  Juneau  does not  have a  truant                                                               
officer.   He said he  was unsure about  the need for  a "policy"                                                               
driven  by  the state;  he  thought  it warranted  dialogue  with                                                               
school districts and  communities to see how Alaska  can keep its                                                               
students in the classroom.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE  described his  experience since  the advent                                                               
of the HSGQE, saying, "The  number of students that graduate from                                                               
the eighth  grade versus those  numbers that make it  though high                                                               
school; there's  a huge variation."   He  wondered if that  was a                                                               
discussion the committee should be having.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1681                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  indicated that  extending the  school year  would do                                                               
little  for  kids who  aren't  attending  now.   He  mentioned  a                                                               
community  that  decided that  "this  was  unacceptable and  they                                                               
tightened up their attendance."   He continued, "What's the state                                                               
role, and how  can we help?   ...  It's another  question I don't                                                               
have an answer to, but one that is worth discussing."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1660                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said she thought  that the student gained a                                                               
lot of insight and direction  for his/her life by doing community                                                               
[service].   She  reported that  Wrangell has  seen big  benefits                                                               
from students involved  in community service; it  is a graduation                                                               
requirement,  and athletes  in  any sport  must  serve a  minimum                                                               
number  of community  hours.    She said  she  has seen  students                                                               
assist  elderly  patients,  work  with Head  Start  children,  or                                                               
provide  a new  service  to  the community.    The school  board,                                                               
teachers,  and  parents  have  worked   together  to  make  these                                                               
decisions, and they believe it has made a difference, she noted.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1597                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  requested that  Representative Wilson  inquire about                                                               
and  report on  Wrangell's  service-learning program  and how  it                                                               
evolved.   He also wondered  what the Wrangell  School District's                                                               
reaction  to state  involvement  would be.    He reiterated  that                                                               
schools have  so much to  do; a service learning  component would                                                               
add "another thing"  before a high school student could  go on to                                                               
college or get a decent job.  Is the time available?                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1510                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  referred  to a  hand-drawn  graph  showing                                                               
crime  rates and  time  of day.   The  highest  crime rate  among                                                               
juveniles is  from 3  p.m. to  5 p.m.   The rate  is two  to four                                                               
times as high  during those two hours after school.   He wondered                                                               
if it  is possible  to start  the school day  two hours  later to                                                               
avoid  tired students  in the  morning  and reduce  crime in  the                                                               
afternoon.   He  noted that  he  has never  heard a  satisfactory                                                               
answer as to why that [later starting time] couldn't work.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1432                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUESS commented  that she's been told  that in the                                                               
Anchorage   School   District   it's  a   transportation   issue.                                                               
Elementary students  are up  early, and there  is a  problem with                                                               
appropriate daycare until  they go to school at 9  a.m.  She said                                                               
the children  at Mountain View  Elementary were at  school before                                                               
it opened when the unfortunate  slashing occurred last year.  She                                                               
indicated  that she'd  not received  a  satisfactory answer  from                                                               
[the  Anchorage  School  District]  on  switching  the  staggered                                                               
starting times.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GUESS  continued,   "Why  don't   we  have   the                                                               
elementary  school kids  go early  - they're  up ....   The  high                                                               
school  kids go  later;  you wouldn't  have extra  transportation                                                               
issues."   She suggested  the committee  could ask  the Anchorage                                                               
School  District  superintendent.     She  concluded  by  saying,                                                               
"Teenagers won't get up early to get in trouble."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1367                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE added  that many students' senior year  is not "time-                                                               
intensive  in the  classroom."   Many have  met their  graduation                                                               
requirements, they're  working half  time, and they're  coming or                                                               
going and  taking only one or  two classes.  This  is the trouble                                                               
with the notion of closed campuses,  he stated.  He queried, "How                                                               
do we  not unfairly burden  those students who are  working their                                                               
fannies off in their senior  year and encourage those that aren't                                                               
spending a  lot of time in  school in their senior  year to spend                                                               
more time [in school]?"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1300                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   STEVENS  expressed   his  need   for  a   better                                                               
understanding of  how Alaska's  school districts  were developed.                                                               
He said he would  like to hear from EED and  to explore the issue                                                               
of consolidation of districts.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1247                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BUNDE   noted  that  single-site  school   districts  have                                                               
"provoked a  good deal of  interesting conversation in  my career                                                               
in the legislature."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1240                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. NORDLUND  responded that  she would  research the  history of                                                               
school district formation for the committee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1218                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   WILSON   referred  to   Representative   Green's                                                               
sketched graph  of juvenile crime  and noted that  research shows                                                               
that  the  majority of  pregnant  teenagers  get pregnant  during                                                               
those  same hours  of 3  p.m.  to 5  p.m.   She  noted that  some                                                               
schools in her  district [House District 2] do  schedule the high                                                               
school starting time later than  the primary and elementary.  She                                                               
offered to check to see if  these schools have noted a difference                                                               
with this change.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1132                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked about  the purpose of the "significant                                                               
amount of information" given to committee members.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1122                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  replied that the  information was for  the committee                                                               
members' continuing education.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1112                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  referred  to   "Statistics  Left  Out  of                                                               
Tolerance Commission's  Take on  Rural, Urban School  Funding" by                                                               
Dermot Cole [in  the committee packet].  She  said that according                                                               
to the article, Senator Wilken  is preparing a detailed report on                                                               
funding  sources in  education.    She said  she  would like  the                                                               
committee to get that report.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1080                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE responded  that he would talk with  Senator Wilken at                                                               
their upcoming appointment,  and he would get  the committee more                                                               
information.  He  reminded the committee that it  had requested a                                                               
new  cost  differential study.    That  information will  not  be                                                               
available  until next  year.    He added  that  should the  House                                                               
Special Committee  on Education  continue to exist  next session,                                                               
members should spend some time discussing that study.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1003                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS commented:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     This has  been a  really valuable  experience for  me -                                                                    
     this  committee  -  and  it  has  served  a  tremendous                                                                    
     purpose.   And I can't  imagine if it were  folded into                                                                    
     [the  House  Health,   Education  and  Social  Services                                                                    
     Standing Committee  (HHES)], how we would  cover all of                                                                    
     the issues that we have covered  this past year.  So, I                                                                    
     don't  know  where  we  go from  here,  but  with  your                                                                    
     leadership,  I  would  hope  that   we  would  let  our                                                                    
     leadership know  the importance of  this committee.   I                                                                    
     would  hope to  see this  become a  standing committee,                                                                    
     or, if not, continue as a subcommittee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0956                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  agreed that he would  like the committee to  come up                                                               
with a recommendation  or a resolution if the  members agree that                                                               
the  committee ought  to remain  separate from  HHES, as  in many                                                               
other states.  Having chaired  both committees, he stated that he                                                               
sees  the  value  of  keeping  them  separate.    He  noted  that                                                               
according to  Chair Dyson, the  HHES plate  is full.   The Senate                                                               
doesn't have enough people to  create another standing committee.                                                               
He  noted  that  Representative  Guess  has  shared  with  him  a                                                               
proposal "to that effect," and  told the committee he would bring                                                               
that to the next meeting.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0874                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  added  that  the state  spends  over  $700                                                               
million per  year on education and  that he thought it  worthy of                                                               
"undivided attention."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0850                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE  noted that education  is the largest single  item of                                                               
the state's  budget, and that  the second largest single  item is                                                               
corrections.  He added that he  thought the morning had been very                                                               
successful and productive.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0832                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special  Committee on  Education  meeting was  adjourned at  9:33                                                               
a.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

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